Phonegap anyone? Or nativescript support?

hpl123

Hi all,
Thinking about the Phonegap option, has anyone created a Phonegap build for IOS/Android and can actually confirm it works fully? Ideally I would like to know if it's possible/feasible to create/publish apps in the appstores, has anyone done that?

Now with the great mobile features in V7, appstore apps is all of a sudden considerably more interesting. I do still think we need some improvements but not that many before we have enough for professional apps via the appstores. Here are the improvements (most important) I can think of, of the top of my head:

First of all, 100% verification AwareIM Phonegap apps have all required things for it to go through the appstore reviews.
Local credential management i.e option in the Phonegap app to habdle, save etc. credentials so the user doesn't have to log in each time (the option for autologin should ideally exist i.e the user type in their credentials 1 time and the when the app is launched the saved credentials are used).
App style options like option to configure appicon, title, splashscreen etc. etc..
Offline access. I would be satisfied with a professional inapp logic or message that would tell the user to go online to use the app for starters and would work for most scenarios.
Push notifications
Access to smartphone options. The things above are more important IMO

Support, I found this, have you seen this?: www.nativescript.org . It seems to be a 100% JS solution that does what Phonegap does (I think, I haven't looked into this in any detail). Telerik is also behind Nativescript so integrating it might not to much work.

BenHayat

Hi Henrik;

Great points you brought up and those are the minimum features that must be in the hybrid apps to start with.

V7 was supposed to have Phonegap integration but was postponed. When I checked with Support regarding for Phonegap support, they said "it's high on the list for v7.1".
I had sent them a list of features that relate to accessing devices on the phone through phonegap support.

It would be great for others to give their comments and wish list here, so support can have a better understanding of our needs.
Since my app depends 100% on Mobile, and I ask prospects what their preference is to run the app in browser or as "app", almost 90% say they prefer as "App" than Browser based. The other 10% didn't know the difference.

One very important feature that should be built into this integration is, the ability for the app to self update itself as a new version is placed in the backend store (Apple or Google).

hpl123

Thanks Ben for the info, I didn't realize Phonegap was left out of v7. Good we will get it back soon and hopefully Awaresoft can implement the other stuff needed.

Other developers, please chip in RE wanted/needed functionality.

Thanks

Markfre1

I was through this in V6 and later will gather my notes and post them. In V6 I enlisted AIM to do the research on Phonegap as I had a number of requirements which required PhoneGap. Them main function was to be able to access the phones contacts. Every app basically allows within the app, to pull contact information for emailing, texting, etc. This would require java scripting, etc.

Another critical feature is to remember the credentials. Mobile apps do not require logins after your login the first time. This would drive people crazy as they keep popping in and out of apps. I'm not sure how this is done, but I would think something with local storage. As basic as this sound, it will kill an app if its not available.

So I ran my app through PhoneGap in V6 and it was a breeze. I don't remember if I submitted to the Apple Store but was running on my Android Phone. AIM did a great job and its nothing to do. I was running it on my android phone perfectly fine.

One of the things I think is very important, is that AIM create scripts for accessing the device, whether it be contacts, dialing, etc. I don't think most of us AIM developers are Javascript developers (why we use AIM) and for AIM to have a simple way for us to plug them in and access them through AIM would really help.

I abandoned mobile in V6 because it was too limited in its capabilities, and didn't work right. However, I have already converted a test app in V7 which was mainly mobile, and all the problems I had are resolved.

60% of users are now accessing via mobile versus desktop so we need AIM to keep this going strong and providing strong mobile interfaces.

I will dig up my notes and try to post them later.

Mark

johntalbott

BenHayat wrote
V7 was supposed to have Phonegap integration but was postponed. When I checked with Support regarding for Phonegap support, they said "it's high on the list for v7.1"

Can you elaborate?

I asked Vladimir about Cordova/Phone Gap in an email. This was the reply:

"I don't know what Cordova does. If you mean building native mobile applications, then this is available in 7.0 (and in 6.0) using PhoneGap technology."

I'm confused as to what actually does/doesn't exist regarding PhoneGap integration.

Does the below work?

BenHayat

johntalbott wrote
I asked Vladimir about Cordova/Phone Gap in an email. This was the reply:

"I don't know what Cordova does. If you mean building native mobile applications, then this is available in 7.0 (and in 6.0) using PhoneGap technology."

FYI:

What's the difference between Apache Cordova and PhoneGap?

PhoneGap is a distribution of Apache Cordova. You can think of Apache Cordova as the engine that powers PhoneGap, similar to how WebKit is the engine that powers Chrome or Safari. (Browser geeks, please allow me the affordance of this analogy and I’ll buy you a beer later.)

Over time, the PhoneGap distribution may contain additional tools that tie into other Adobe services, which would not be appropriate for an Apache project. For example, PhoneGap Build and Adobe Shadow together make a whole lot of strategic sense. PhoneGap will always remain free, open source software and will always be a free distribution of Apache Cordova.

johntalbott

Right .. I'm familiar with Cordova and PhoneGap. Vlad was saying he didn't know what Cordova is. I basically told him the same thing you posted above.

What's not clear to me is ... what PhoneGap integration does/doesn't exist in v7?

BenHayat

One important note. PhoneGap does NOT produce "Native" iOS or Android app. With PhoneGap you produce "Hybrid" app. Basically, Phonegap creates a custom shell (iOS shell for iOS and Android Shell for Android). Within that shell, it then runs a browser engine which our app will run as browser app. The Phonegap shell then hides away the browser's borders and offers it's own chrome.
At this point, you're basically running a custom phonegap browser (like FF or Chrome). At the bare minimum, any browser app will run in the phonegap, just as if it was running in other browser. This is what Aware V6 offered. Getting a V6 Mobile to run inside of Phonegap.

What Phonegap shell offers that other browsers don't offer, is that, the app that runs inside of the browser, via JS, can make request to different services that the phone offers, i.e. "Take a picture" or "Give me the sat location" or "access phone's contact list". In return, phonegap, natively talks to the phone and passes on your request and performs the action.
So, Phonegap, is basically a middleman that allows a JS client app to ask the phone to do things through phonegap, which normally if that client app was running in a browser as in a sandbox, could not talk to iOS or Android.
This part is the part that is missing from V6, and we hope Awaresoft, will expand it to take advantage of many features that Phonegap offers. Phonegap, offers many of the APIs (as middleman) where a client JS app like our apps, can make the phone do things, as if it was a true native app.
It's like having the best of both worlds.

Hope thos helps!

BenHayat

Take a look at this video that shows how well Alphasoftware uses phonegap to build a true hybrid app that can tap into so many features of a phone.

Notice how from the start, they automate the whole cycle of building and publishing, rather just producing a zip file.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRh_hJmws-Q

hpl123

Thanks for the info about Phonegap etc. Ben BUT could you clarify your comment about Phonegap in V7? Doesn´t it work? Thanks

BenHayat

hpl123 wrote
Thanks for the info about Phonegap etc. Ben BUT could you clarify your comment about Phonegap in V7? Doesn´t it work? Thanks

V7, is just what was done in V6 ported over, which basically creates the shell. But hopefully we will see more API integration with the Phonegap in the future that provides access to phone's services.

BenHayat

hpl123 wrote
Doesn´t it work? Thanks

As far as does it work or not, I didn't try or test it, since running just in a bare bone shell is the same as running in browser.
Any company who opts for phonegap, is to take advantage of services that phonegap offers and not only an empty shell. So, Aware implementation will become valuable when those services are exposed to us to use it. That's when you're creating a "Hybrid" app, not by just having a shell.

johntalbott

I agree that Aware should be referring to these as hybrid apps. They are not "native". Anyone that knows better will quickly call BS.

Based on what you are saying Ben ... it sounds like there is next to no integration. Meaning we can compile an the Aware front end to run on iOS or Android in the PhoneGap shell but there is no API integration to talk to the device hardware.

If that's the case, this is a BIG disappointment.

BenHayat

johntalbott wrote
If that's the case, this is a BIG disappointment.

Hopefully, there are new features in the pipeline. And those service integration are the ones that I was asking people to put their requests in. I had send my list to support when V7 had started and I hope they still have my list.

1) Ability to play a video in Aware from a locally saved video on Mobile storage.
2) Ability to take picture while in Aware and picture gets stored into Database, rather using Phone's third party tool to take picture, store it and then go back to aware app to load it. For example an insurance agents needs to take several quick pictures that are part of the form.
3) Ability to provide live location of the phone based on Sat.
4) Ability to store login credentials.
5) Ability for the app to self update itself.
6) Notification via Phone services and not Aware notification.

tford

6) Notification via Phone services and not Aware notification.

This one is HUGE

johntalbott

This is the base list of required API integration to at least be on par with what's already out there.

Accelerometer
Camera
Compass
Contacts
File
Geolocation
Media
Network
Notification (alert, sound, vibration)
Storage

I'd love it if Cordova were directly built into the AwareIM IDE, but for the shorter term ... I settle for just being able to do it somewhat manually. Hopefully this would keep the door open for integration of other Cordova plug-ins as they will come out faster than Aware could keep up.

btw .. the list above is from ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Cordova

BenHayat

johntalbott wrote
This is the base list of required API integration to at least be on par with what's already out there.

Accelerometer
Camera
Compass
Contacts
File
Geolocation
Media
Network
Notification (alert, sound, vibration)
Storage

I'd love it if Cordova were directly built into the AwareIM IDE, but for the shorter term ... I settle for just being able to do it somewhat manually. Hopefully this would keep the door open for integration of other Cordova plug-ins as they will come out faster than Aware could keep up.

btw .. the list above is from ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_Cordova

Just remember, Aware is not using Cordova. It's using Phonegap.

johntalbott

But they should be ...

johntalbott

To clarify ... while the list above refers to the core integration provided by Cordova, PhoneGap (Adobe's productized version of Cordova) should still have all of those capabilities.

The advantage of Cordova in my mind, is that it's completely open source. Also .. I'm not a 100% certain of this .. but I believe that PhoneGap has it's own API that sits on top of Cordova. If that is the case ... the Aware code would talking to the PhoneGap code that is talking to the Cordova code ... meaning there is an extra layer. Every layer is a performance hit which on a mobile devices results in very noticeable lag/poor UX, which is the primary knock on hybrid apps.

My assumption is these are some of the reasons Telerik, Appery, Ionic, etc using Cordova rather than PhoneGap.

BenHayat

johntalbott wrote
To clarify ...

There are a few points to keep in mind:
1) If there are any lag due to the layers, those "lags" are only present when the app is making calls to the phone services and NOT when the app is running in the sandbox. The UI performance are not affected, since the Browser engine inside of the shell is still running the app and not the shell.

2) Hybrid apps are more suited for Business applications that are more generally used for data gathering and presentations. The current new web browser's engine have proven to have a good performance for "Business" Apps. Native apps are those that require intense and raw usage of the mobile resources and that's where you use Objective-C or Java (in Android) to eliminate any lags. Aware apps are 99% business apps.

3) The products that you mentioned are mainly concentrating on "Mobile ONLY" apps as their main business. Aware IM's Mobile is just a small part of the entire package. Aware offers so many things beyond Mobile. So, going with low level Cordova, requires a lot more resources involved than going with Phonegap, where lots of stuff has already been done by Adobe and Aware can save lots of time on it.

At this point, having a full featured Phongap integrated is much better than using Cordova with half integration to gain a bit more performance where it may not even apply to Aware apps.