Anyone interested in Paypal REST Base Inteface from Aware?

BenHayat

RLJB wrote
Plus we're considering changing our charging method, our thinking is we can simplify our billing process by moving away from an automatic deduction method on the monthly anniversary. Basically we will have our system calculate a"date paid to" for the customer, they buy 1, 3, 6 or twelve months in advance, that sets the date paid to. If this falls behind current date they can't login without making a payment. This is what our accounting system does, it's simple and effective, but it does have an issue if people don't pay for 5 months and then try and login. Also if they just buy monthly they have to keep re entering credit card details.

Excellent write up and THANK YOU for writing this.
From some other projects that I had done before in ASP.NET and doing Payment processing for other clients, I learned monthly processing (which was really daily processing for us, because you never knew what day of the month a user started their subscription, so every day we had to pull those that are due in 30 days). It was a pain, even though we tried to automate things, but it was hard.
So, for my new SaaS project in Aware, I've decided to do an "Annual" subscription and when someone buys, we set a date called "ExpiresIn" which is 365 days added to purchase date.

But in US, many people use Paypal, due to it's protection policy. So, Paypal, debit card and Credit card, are all important. And this can be done with the current Paypal system in Aware, but not the best implementation.

hpl123

I can also confirm Braintree´s application process being somewhat tedious. For me it took a couple of weeks to get approved and I needed business registration documents, single page business plan, forecast for usage etc. etc. It is what it is and most merchant account application processes are like this (I actually think Braintree is better than many other but it´s still a tedious process).

Regarding the Braintree Paypal integration, I am not sure I am interested in chipping in on that. Firstly, I don´t really use PayPal for our customers and secondly I think this integration is a BIG undertaking and will be expensive for Awaresoft to develop.

Good to hear your thoughts Rod and interesting you might be going back to PayPal. Then a PayPal COMPLETE plugin/integration might still be interesting? The COMPLETE integration should be able to do what the Braintree plugin does but that is probably possible.

BenHayat

hpl123 wrote
I can also confirm Braintree´s application process being somewhat tedious. For me it took a couple of weeks to get approved and I needed business registration documents, single page business plan, forecast for usage etc. etc. It is what it is and most merchant account application processes are like this (I actually think Braintree is better than many other but it´s still a tedious process).

Regarding the Braintree Paypal integration, I am not sure I am interested in chipping in on that. Firstly, I don´t really use PayPal for our customers and secondly I think this integration is a BIG undertaking and will be expensive for Awaresoft to develop.

Good to hear your thoughts Rod and interesting you might be going back to PayPal. Then a PayPal COMPLETE plugin/integration might still be interesting? The COMPLETE integration should be able to do what the Braintree plugin does but that is probably possible.

Just got this.
http://techcrunch.com/2015/04/28/paypal-brings-its-instant-checkout-service-one-touch-to-the-web/#.erwglq:chny

RLJB

One thing I forgot to mention.... We are currently also looking at stripe.com which offers 100+ currencies. So far it looks good, I will update when we have finished our investigations.

Just reading above its clear that Everyone's needs are different, and different countries have different rules, so you all really need to do do thorough investigations.

hpl123

RLJB wrote
One thing I forgot to mention.... We are currently also looking at stripe.com which offers 100+ currencies. So far it looks good, I will update when we have finished our investigations.

Just reading above its clear that Everyone's needs are different, and different countries have different rules, so you all really need to do do thorough investigations.

Stripe is BY FAR the best option and I know many developers use it for their webapps etc.. The founder of stripe was actually a developer tired of the ridiculous/tedious application process for merchant accounts and created stripe to be an easy, fully functional solution/alternative. Also if i´m not mistaken, stripe is similar to Paypal in it´s usage for developers: you create an account and is up and running almost right away (i.e. not long application process etc. etc.). Also the stripe fee etc. are absolutely ok and is very similar to PayPal.

Stripe wasn´t available in Scandinavia previously when I investigated it but now is so I am definitely up for a Kickstarter creating a stripe plugin. The ideal would of course be if Awaresoft realize the value and builds stripe directly into Aware IM? RLJB, have you at all started the discussion wit hAwaresoft regarding creating a stripe plugin?

customaware

Regarding Rod's comments....

RLJB wrote
We're the guys that got the original Braintree plugin developed by awareim. There's a lot to consider on this topic, so I will try and give you our reasoning and then you

Now the bad side of Braintree....
.
.
.

Currencies. Our Braintree account provides only for Australian dollars. This is a pain, we want to launch in Asia, UK, USA in LOCAL currency. Can't do it easily within Braintree, we have to open a merchant account in each currency. (PayPal by far has the largest selection of currencies).

I have just received this back from Braintree...

"As an Australian merchant, you can settle in 9 major currencies: AUD, CAD, EUR, GBP, HKD, JPY, NZD, SGD, and USD. Additionally, you can accept payments in over 130 currencies.

If you plan on using anything other than AUD, you will need a multi-currency account with NAB. Do you have an existing account? If not, one of our sales representatives will assist you during the application process."

RLJB

Hey Mark, I suspect it's a bit of a "moving target" - as the competition gets hotter, they relax their rules (perhaps). They seem to have changed their tune a little since I last asked (which was about 6 months ago), I wonder how easy it is to get a multi-currency account. I will ask again.

Hendrik - the Stripe signup process is as simple as signing up, identifying yourself (I used Google+, LinkedIn and Facebook) and it is immediate. It is very simple. I haven't asked Aware to price a plugin build yet for Stripe, still doing the investigations.

RLJB

Mark - this is an email from Braintree support from May 2014:

Hi Rodney,

Thanks for reaching out, and congrats on the UK launch! We can definitely help you set up your account to process GBP in addition to AUD. Here’s an overview of how it would work:

Setup

In order to process a new currency with NAB, your merchant account provider, you’ll need to open new bank account with NAB in the new currencies. NAB will reach out to you directly with instructions and associated setup paperwork once I get the process started over here.
From there, if you’re interested in converting foreign currencies back to AUD, you’ll be able to transfer between your accounts. One thing to note that is that NAB may charge transfer fees.
Pricing would be at your current rate: Interchange + 1.75% + 0.25 AUD
Process

Please returned the multi-currency agreement attached signed.
I’ll request the additional currencies (GBP) and NAB will reach out to get these set up.
In the meantime, we can add GBP to your Sandbox so that you can test.
Let me know if you have any questions and we’ll get you up and running as soon as possible!

Best,

Plus on the form they state the charges as:
Multicurrency Processing (Non-AUD): 3.05% + 0.25 AUD per transaction

It just seems overly difficult, I want to be able to offer a system in the UK, US, Aus, NZ, and Sing all in local currencies. I believe that means four new bank accounts, that's four new bank reconciliations every month for our accounts etc. I will email him back and see if it is any easier now.

BenHayat

RLJB wrote
Hendrik - the Stripe signup process is as simple as signing up, identifying yourself (I used Google+, LinkedIn and Facebook) and it is immediate. It is very simple. I haven't asked Aware to price a plugin build yet for Stripe, still doing the investigations.

Hopefully, as more developers come to use Aware, especially for SaaS applications, a complete [and up to date] Payment processing system needs to be in place within Aware Structure, whether it's PayPal REST API or Braintree or Stripe REST system.
So Rod, after your investigations and before you approach Awaresoft for custom plugin for your need, I suggest to open it up here, so we also can contribute to the features and then we all can pitch in for a plugin that servers most of the needs and it's close to a complete implementation.
The current Paypal implementation is old and Aware needs a new Payment processing system from ground up. It's part of every SaaS application and Aware is awesome for building these large and powerful apps.

Just my two cents and hope Support is reading this.

customaware

RLJB wrote
Hey Mark, I suspect it's a bit of a "moving target" - as the competition gets hotter, they relax their rules (perhaps). They seem to have changed their tune a little since I last asked (which was about 6 months ago), I wonder how easy it is to get a multi-currency account. I will ask again.

Hendrik - the Stripe signup process is as simple as signing up, identifying yourself (I used Google+, LinkedIn and Facebook) and it is immediate. It is very simple. I haven't asked Aware to price a plugin build yet for Stripe, still doing the investigations.

Yes Rod....

I had a play with Stripe last night and in a few minutes was able to set up my payment plans which was simple. Certainly the most intuitive to date that I have looked at. (except Recurly which looks gorgeous but is expensive and is not an all in one solution)

I assume Node+ is basically .js ??

I would certainly support funding an interface to this if it can be done quickly.

BenHayat

eagles9999 wrote
RLJB wrote
Hey Mark, I suspect it's a bit of a "moving target" - as the competition gets hotter, they relax their rules (perhaps). They seem to have changed their tune a little since I last asked (which was about 6 months ago), I wonder how easy it is to get a multi-currency account. I will ask again.

Hendrik - the Stripe signup process is as simple as signing up, identifying yourself (I used Google+, LinkedIn and Facebook) and it is immediate. It is very simple. I haven't asked Aware to price a plugin build yet for Stripe, still doing the investigations.

Yes Rod....

I had a play with Stripe last night and in a few minutes was able to set up my payment plans which was simple. Certainly the most intuitive to date that I have looked at. (except Recurly which looks gorgeous but is expensive and is not an all in one solution)

I assume Node+ is basically .js ??

I would certainly support funding an interface to this if it can be done quickly.

Mark, I will tell you one thing from past experience working with different clients and dealing with general public and their perception when it comes to payment time. Paypal has earned a great deal of public trust, which will take Stripe and others a long time to gain that. That trust WILL affect you when someone hesitates to make payment. I want to take advantage of what Paypal has done to gain people's trust rather than me trying to convince people,'Oh yes, Strip or xyz, is as good as Paypal to dispute your payment". Keep that in mind!

customaware

Good point Ben.

hpl123

Rod,
Thanks and as someone else said, take the discussion here and we can possible all help define / chip in on stripe.

Ben,
Yeah, good point about PayPal and that is good for scenarios when the user has to know which payment provider the app uses. If we integrate Stripe for example, the user type in their creditcard inside the app and then the payments are just handled automatically. That´s what I want, a seamless experience AND then a good idea is of course also to add the creditcard lika Visa, Mastercard etc. (possible even PayPal) icons to the SaaS site and app because it helps with credibility.

Kickstarter?,
Looking at this post, there are many interested in developing a better option and I would prefer Stripe and can contribute with a couple of hundred dollars if we choose to go down this route and if all interested contribute 100USD or a couple of 100´s we could probably we a KICKASS stripe plugin AND ALSO have it built into Aware IM if Awaresoft approves? As Ben said, we NEED a good, working payment system for our apps.

BenHayat

hpl123 wrote
Rod,
Thanks and as someone else said, take the discussion here and we can possible all help define / chip in on stripe.

That was me... 😃

hpl123 wrote
Kickstarter?,
Looking at this post, there are many interested in developing a better option and I would prefer Stripe and can contribute with a couple of hundred dollars if we choose to go down this route and if all interested contribute 100USD or a couple of 100´s we could probably we a KICKASS stripe plugin AND ALSO have it built into Aware IM if Awaresoft approves? As Ben said, we NEED a good, working payment system for our apps.

I'm all for it. As the original subject of this thread was to develop a Paypal REST API to have full automation. If you guys want to go Stripe route, I go along. The key is Awaresoft participation and giving us a proposal either as an add-on product or built into Aware. We can talk all we want, until Support doesn't come forward, it's just talk. 😃

RLJB

I'm happy to approach Aware Support, ask for a quote, feed back the info here and manage the process should we agree to proceed.

It would assist if everyone could clearly describe what their requirements are , just post them up here.

My starting point would be to basically do what the existing Braintree plugin does now, as described above:

Create a customer, and get a token in return that we can store in Aware bo
Send a charge transaction (in any currency) to the customer using the token, get a success or fail response

Based on our experience - we've run a SaaS multi-tenant app for about 2 years - using these similar functions from Braintree, it's our belief this is all you need (at least for a starting point). There is no manual intervention required. All the payment calcs, charge amounts, reminders/nag emails, receipts/invoices, keeping a transaction history etc are all done from Aware (it's not hard to configure this up). Stripe (as well as Briaintree and PP) offer "plans" for subscription services, plus other more advanced functions, BUT using the power of Aware you can just build whatever you need without touching these, rather than spend money on the plugin. Tell me what you think?

weblike

RLJB wrote
Create a customer, and get a token in return that we can store in Aware bo

Send a charge transaction (in any currency) to the customer using the token, get a success or fail response

.....it's our belief this is all you need (at least for a starting point). There is no manual intervention required. All the payment calcs, charge amounts, reminders/nag emails, receipts/invoices, keeping a transaction history etc are all done from Aware (it's not hard to configure this up).

for me this would be perfect for beginning.

Thx.

BenHayat

RLJB wrote
I'm happy to approach Aware Support, ...

Thank you Rodney for heading this, since you have more experience.
So, my first question is, should we do Stripe or an improved version of Braintree that accepts PP and Debitcard or PP REST Service?

I agree 100% that most of backend services that can be done (as you pointed out, like subscription) we should do it in Aware. In fact, I'm writing it regardless what Payment processing method I go with.

Personally, I need a solid plugin that allows me (even single transaction would be fine) to
*) charge a customer with the amount that customer sees and agrees before charge.
*) A complete backend (Aware service) to backend(Stripe service) communication without redirecting to Stripe and back to Aware site again.
*) Aware service/plugin, needs to provide us, the developer what the outcome was (either the charge went through or not and why not) so we can provide the message to user.
*) to credit a customer, in case there was a mistake and we need to undo the charge.
*) Support for Debit card.

My first question for Awaresoft would be, would this become available before the next major release or after or how long would it take? So, should I continue on my current path to build my app based on PP and then later move to Stripe or will it happen very soon?

Thank you in advance.

BenHayat

Does anyone have phone # for Stripe? I need to actually speak to someone. I called Braintree and I got a very knowledgeable person on the line on the second ring.

When we, as developers get caught between consumer and these financial entities, we need to be able to pickup the phone and resolve things. Not having a phone # bothers me.

RLJB

Ben - we're interested in doing the Stripe plugin for the multicurrency (Braintree doesn't allow that easily).

Mark - Braintree got back to me re multi-currency, and the process is the same - we need a bank account in each currency and that has fees to transfer between different currency bank accounts - even though no one can tell me what those fees are.

Ben - based on your post above you are adding item 3 and 4 to the scope as follows:

Create a customer, and get a token in return that we can store in Aware BO
Send a charge transaction (in any currency) to the customer using the token, get a success or fail response
Within Aware be able to process a refund to a customer (i.e refund an existing charge)
Accept PayPal as a payment method.

Ben - can I ask if you really need item 3? I would expect you won't get many of these, and it's easy to process the refund by the Stripe website (you just click refund on the payment transaction). The only reason I ask this is to keep the plugin as simple as possible to start with.

Anyone else got any requirements they want to suggest?

BenHayat

RLJB wrote
Ben - we're interested in doing the Stripe plugin for the multicurrency (Braintree doesn't allow that easily).

Mark - Braintree got back to me re multi-currency, and the process is the same - we need a bank account in each currency and that has fees to transfer between different currency bank accounts - even though no one can tell me what those fees are.

Ben - based on your post above you are adding item 3 and 4 to the scope as follows:

Create a customer, and get a token in return that we can store in Aware BO

Send a charge transaction (in any currency) to the customer using the token, get a success or fail response

Within Aware be able to process a refund to a customer (i.e refund an existing charge)

Accept PayPal as a payment method.

Ben - can I ask if you really need item 3? I would expect you won't get many of these, and it's easy to process the refund by the Stripe website (you just click refund on the payment transaction). The only reason I ask this is to keep the plugin as simple as possible to start with.

Anyone else got any requirements they want to suggest?

Rod, you're absolutely correct and when I wrote it, I was just thinking out loud. But yesterday, as I was driving, I said, what was I thinking, I can do the refund on the Stripe site.
So yes, cross that.
On # 4, I didn't say support for Paypal. I said support for Debit card, since many people use their Debit card in US to pay.
I don't think we can have PP support with Stripe. But With Braintree, it's possible.

IF They both support Multi Currency, why don't we just improve on Braintree Plugin to support Debit card And PP and we got the best of all. Just my two cents.

Thank you Rod.

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