PROTECT Object.Attribute FROM ALL EXCEPT System

Rennur

Overview
The object contains only one PROTECT rule & the value of this attribute is set by system (rule) on initialisation; (based on a non-persisted object created prior).
The attribute is not even on the user form.

PROTECT Object.Attribute FROM ALL EXCEPT System

Issue
The attribute remains PROTECTED from the system anyway.

Log:
-Access to attribute myAttribute of business object myObject is denied. Restoring old value undefined

If there was no manual user input whatsoever, are there any other instances where 'FROM ALL EXCEPT System' would not work?

Rennur

Hi Support,

BSV emailed.

Cheers

aware_support

Changing a value by the "system" means change it by rules. Because you are saving the object the value is changed by the user, not by the system, so everything is correct.

Rennur

Changing a value by the "system" means change it by rules.

Business rules or process rules?
I don't understand, the attribute's value is set by the business rule.

Because you are saving the object the value is changed by the user, not by the system, so everything is correct.

But the value is set by the system (rule) not the user. I'm creating the object (Enter New) and need to save/create the database record.
The 'system' is preventing that even though I used 'except System'.

I'm confused, can you please share an example on when the 'except System' might apply?

tford

Rennur -- a work around would be to use CREATE to initialize the instance and EDIT immediately following. I think that might solve your issue.

Rennur

I use 'except System' in other situations and business rules so I need to understand what purpose does it serve so I can apply it properly.

Doesn't it protect the attribute & attribute value form being changed/edited ie. makes it read only.
So if I make it read only when some other condition is met for example, then the user can't change it anyway.
So how can it be 'changed by the user' when it's read only and uneditable?

The value can be changed by the rules (system) as it is not PROTECTED from system (PROTECT except System)

I've provided a BSV and I cannot see the logic in support's explanation.
What am I missing here?

aware_support

An explanation of what SYSTEM means:

You have a protection rule:

IF SomeCondition THEN
PROTECT Object.Attribute FROM SYSTEM

Scenario 1.
A user submits a form where the value of the Object.Attribute is different from the one stored in the database. The change is denied and Aware IM restores the old value

Scenario 2.
The value of the attribute is changed by a rule (in an object or in a process):
Object.Attribute = SomeValue
The change is allowed because it is considered to be a "system change"

Rennur

Support,

Typo?

"PROTECT Object.Attribute FROM SYSTEM"

I'm not protecting the attribute from the System. The system is the one setting the value of the attribute.

Scenario 1.
A user submits a form where the value of the Object.Attribute is different from the one stored in the database. The change is denied and Aware IM restores the old value

In my BSV, there is no value in the database, no record in the database to compare values, I'm creating a new Object.
The user merely submits the form where the value is set by the system. The value is not protected from the system.

Scenario 2.
The value of the attribute is changed by a rule (in an object or in a process):
Object.Attribute = SomeValue
The change is allowed because it is considered to be a "system change"

That's what I'm saying. The value is changed by business rule but access is denied on save.
The form has to be saved for the change to be applied. The user has to save it by clicking the save button.
Clicking the save button doesn't mean that the user has changed the value. He hasn't.

When or what scenario would "except System" apply?

Rennur

The Object contains 2 business rules

#1 SET TIME IN: Value set by a rule, not user (scenario 2)

If
Waiting IS NEW AND Waiting.WaitingMins IS DEFINED Then
Waiting.Time_In=TIME_ADD(CURRENT_TIMESTAMP, Waiting.WaitingMins)

#2 PROTECT Time In except System

If
Waiting.IsCarrier='Yes' Then
PROTECT Waiting.Time_In FROM ALL EXCEPT System

On clicking "Confirm Waiting' (create object action), the access to TimeIn is denied to the System. Reverting back to undefined value.

How does the except system not apply here? I can't get my head around it 🙁

aware_support

Yes, it's a typo - the rule should have been:
PROTECT FROM ALL EXCEPT SYSTEM

When an object is new the old value is undefined, so any value that is not undefined will be rejected.

Rennur

Yes, so it is a bug then.

The system is excepted from the PROTECT rule and the system sets the value.

Rennur

Support, if I understand you correctly:

1. If a system (rule) changes the value of an attribute, but the form is submitted by a user it is still considered a user change. (even though the system made the change)

2. When the form is submitted by a user, there is no way for the system to know if the value has been changed by a business rule or by direct user input.
It is simply a changed value which the system always marks as being changed by the user.

I just want the attribute to be protected from manual user input if some condition is met but still allow the rules to change the value. Hence, the PROTECT except System is used.
I cannot make it 'calculated' as this makes it permanently read only.

How does the system then know who made the change and when would the 'except System' be used?

Rennur

Come to think of it, essentially, I want to make the attribute 'calculated' i.e read only to the user based on some rule conditions, but allow any changes made by the business rules (system) on submit, save or re-calucation.

This is what I though the PROTECT action already does, unless it's a bug, I guess I was wrong.
I though "PROTECT from ALL except System" makes the attribute 'calculated', allowing changes yet making it read only to the user.

Since the calculated checkbox makes the attribute read only permanantely, I was substituting the use of this checkbox with the PROTECT action.

I still don't see what purpose 'except System' serves.
How can this be achieved? A new function e.g READ ONLY?

aware_support

Your 1. and 2. statements above are correct.

As to your dilemma - one possibility is not to use PROTECT but show the value as an HTML cell on the form, which obviously cannot be changed.

Rennur

I think I understand how it works now; PROTECT cannot be used via rules to mimic the 'calculated' checkbox. A bit of a letdown.

For your consideration:
A function to make the attribute 'calculated' via business rules (even if it simply applies a css class to disable input field) would be helpful.

Cheers