SOAP-based web services survey

aware_support

Dear Aware IM users.

we are getting closer to the release of a new version 8.6. Among other things this version will support Big Sur - the latest Mac OS. (Version 8.5 is not compatible with Big Sur). This required us to update Aware IM to Java 12 on Windows and Linux and to Java 15 on Mac OS. Unfortunately, support for SOAP based web services in the new Java is very different from the old one and updating them is a very big job.

Long story short - we are planning to release 8.6 without support for SOAP-based web services (both exposing and consuming them). We will probably add this support in subsequent releases.

The question we have to the community is how many of you are using SOAP based web services - again both exposing and consumption?

Note that it will still be possible to consume web services using a plugin - this is a relatively straightforward job.

PLEASE NOTE - this DOES NOT apply to REST-ful web services - support for them will remain unchanged.

BobK

We consume and expose SOAP based web services.

Jaymer

aware_support wrote
This required us to update Aware IM to Java 12 on Windows and Linux and to Java 15 on Mac OS.

Does this mean we have to start paying Oracle for JAVA ?

Jaymer

aware_support wrote
we are planning to release 8.6 without support for SOAP-based web services (both exposing and consuming them)

Maybe this isn't an issue.
It depends on what new features are coming with 8.6
Do you have a list?

aware_support

8.6 list will be in a separate thread at some point.

Paying Oracle for Java - as we understand their licensing policy developers do not have to pay - only the end users. So, yes, they may need to purchase a subscription (which is not expensive as far as I understand).

PointsWell

aware_support wrote
Paying Oracle for Java - as we understand their licensing policy developers do not have to pay - only the end users. So, yes, they may need to purchase a subscription (which is not expensive as far as I understand).

Is there a reason to use Oracle JDK instead of Open JDK?

aware_support

Open JDK is licensed under GPL, which is not suitable for Aware IM - it is not open source.

ACDC

Long story short - we are planning to release 8.6 without support for SOAP-based web services (both exposing and consuming them). We will probably add this support in subsequent releases.

So for the purpose of BIG Sur , non Mac users lose SOAP ?

We use SOAP on a current 7.1 installation pending upgrade to the new Version.

Also busy with a new massive project where the spec for connecting to devices via SOAP is required, also pending upgrade to new AwareIm with latest Kendo version

Jaymer

aware_support wrote
Open JDK is licensed under GPL, which is not suitable for Aware IM - it is not open source.

"not suitable" for you, as a software development company, to distribute with Aware the tool?
or
end-users have some technical reason why Open JDK will not work with Aware IM the tool?
or
Open JDK license still does not allow an end-user (company using an Aware solution) to use free-of-charge?

RLJB wrote
Can confirm OpenJDK 8 works fine, have been using on 6 AwareIM prod servers with Linux for at least 12 months.

nhofkes wrote
I just finished installing the OpenJDK 15 to replace the standard Java SE v8 that ships with AwareIM. So far everything seems to be working fine, I got the Control Panel and the Configurator running without any problems.

PointsWell

None of the above

The GPL series are all copyleft licenses, which means that any derivative work must be distributed under the same or equivalent license terms.

To distribute Open JDK would require AIM to be open sourced

Jaymer

PointsWell wrote
None of the above

The GPL series are all copyleft licenses, which means that any derivative work must be distributed under the same or equivalent license terms.

To distribute Open JDK would require AIM to be open sourced

Sure, he cant.
But what about US using it on our upcloud or in-house servers?
... we’re not distributing it.

aware_support

So for the purpose of BIG Sur , non Mac users lose SOAP ?

First of all loss of SOAP web services is temporary. If they are crucial for someone they should stay on 8.5 for the time being. Second of all, we cannot sit on the old Java forever. Big Sur is just the first serious reminder that we need to update.

But what about US using it on our upcloud or in-house servers?

As we understand GPL if you use GPL-based products all the software that you are using must be open source, so you would need the source code for Aware IM to be published.

PointsWell

aware_support wrote
But what about US using it on our upcloud or in-house servers?
As we understand GPL if you use GPL-based products all the software that you are using must be open source, so you would need the source code for Aware IM to be published.

IANA(P)L but

It seems to depend on whether you modify OpenJDK and create a new Work (ie piece of software) from that OpenJDK. If the JDK is swappable entirely i.e. you could install AIM run it with Oracle JDK then shut it down and swap out OpenJDK with no modification to the JDK then you can distribute as long as you provide the source code to the JDK or a link to the source code

http://openjdk.java.net/legal/gplv2+ce.html wrote

2. You may modify your copy or copies of the Program or any portion of it, thus
forming a work based on the Program, and copy and distribute such modifications
or work under the terms of Section 1 above, provided that you also meet all of
these conditions:

a) You must cause the modified files to carry prominent notices stating
that you changed the files and the date of any change.

b) You must cause any work that you distribute or publish, that in whole or
in part contains or is derived from the Program or any part thereof, to be
licensed as a whole at no charge to all third parties under the terms of
this License.

c) If the modified program normally reads commands interactively when run,
you must cause it, when started running for such interactive use in the
most ordinary way, to print or display an announcement including an
appropriate copyright notice and a notice that there is no warranty (or
else, saying that you provide a warranty) and that users may redistribute
the program under these conditions, and telling the user how to view a copy
of this License.  (Exception: if the Program itself is interactive but does
not normally print such an announcement, your work based on the Program is
not required to print an announcement.)

...

In addition, mere aggregation of another work not based on the Program with the
Program (or with a work based on the Program) on a volume of a storage or
distribution medium does not bring the other work under the scope of this
License.

aware_support

That's good news, then...

triss

What is the issue you're seeing with Big Sur? I run it on my laptop and as far as I can tell 8.5 is running fine. Happy to investigate what's different about what I'm doing.

aware_support

A few people reported issues with 8.5 and Big Sur. Some were not even able to run it. We are not sure exactly what was wrong, but it is a well known fact that the version of Eclipse that Aware IM is using in 8.5 has issues with Big Sur. If those people who reported problems are watching this thread they can provide the details.

Andrea

As an Aware IM and Mac user for 12 years, I’ll give some feedback on the macOS glitches.

I’m currently running Aware IM 8.4 on a remote server as well as on my local iMac. I develop on my local mac and upload the BSV on my remote server. I accidentally updated to Big Sur on my local mac and though it still runs fine, it does have its glitches. The most common glitch is missing text. For example, when you add a query to the VP menu and go to choose the query, the list is blank. You need to click the blank list and it populates. Other examples are missing text here and there. Since I know where things are in the configurator, I’ve just worked around the glitches. None of the glitches has stopped me from working as usual, however, a new user would have issues. Perhaps they are fixed in 8.5.

I used to regularly update Aware IM with the latest updates as it took me, a non-technical user, 15 minutes to update and was so easy. Then came the versions with Eclipse and the need for SSL. Eclipse and the MacOS no longer worked well together and updates became big hassles and could take me a few weeks to get bugs figured out. I also have no expertise with SSL. So I hired Intra to set up my SSL and do my Aware IM updates on my remote server. He is an awesome genius who took away all my system headaches. I know the update he did to 8.4 did not go smoothly and I believe he sent his notes to Support.

My current strategy is to avoid AwareIM updates because it no longer goes smoothly. If it went back to easy, then I would go back to regular updates. From what I’ve heard about 8.5, I’m staying with 8.4. I realize the issues come from outside of Aware IM (Java, Eclipse, macOS), so if Aware IM can do anything to make it better for Mac in 8.6, you have my vote.

ACDC

The most common glitch is missing text. For example, when you add a query to the VP menu and go to choose the query, the list is blank. You need to click the blank list and it populates.

I am not so sure this problem is unique to MAC

I am on Windows and there have been numerous occasions in my testing of V8.5 where I have experienced screen refresh issues which makes the object rules disappear, the only way to resolve this is to close the object tab and re-open the object again

Also sometimes the menu buttons for up and down placement and search on the rules grid form just disappear, once again to resolve this close the tabs and re-open

The other issue I have experienced which is more serious, making changes to an object by adding new form settings saving , and then running a preview screen to ascertain all is well and finally placing under test to find that none of the new changes appear. Then going back to check on each setting to make sure they are in fact there (revert back to editing) to find they ARE in fact all there but have been ignored when putting under test.

The only way to resolve this is to completely unload the configurator and then reload, the result being all the new settings carried out are gone. (This is after a valid save correct preview and further confirmation that all settings are in place – the configurator was in fact showing a fake setup 😮 )

I initially thought that it may be faulty memory on my laptop causing this (in another thread other users in the forum do not appear to have the same problems), so moved to a Windows 2016 server version and the same issues prevail – So there is something inside Eclipse behaving very badly and is why it appears sluggish most of the time - not sure if it has something to do with the size of the BSV

The one thing I do know, is to never leave your configurator open for a period of time, It’s best when you resume work to unload the configurator first and then reload and start fresh again

Andrea

Yes, I've learnt to shut down the configurator if it's going to be idol for a period of time.

Another glitch I'm having is the integrity checker. The first time it is run when I'm using a new session in the configurator, it works fine. But any additional checks does not populate the "Problems" window. It shows the number of issues, but you have to click on them so they will show up and it leaves the resolved issues in the list. It doesn't seem to be clearing or populating properly.

BLOMASKY

with the configurator on OS X, you can summarize the issues with a lack of screen refresh.

example. a 4 line process. I delete line 1 and it still looks like it has 4 lines, line 4 moved up to line 3 but line 4 still stays there.

example. Designing a form, you place a field on the form and it is not displayed, until you save the form, close it, and reopen it.

(btw, for those using the standalone Jasper Studio, same issue)

Bruce