A Distraction for a slow Friday... (Servoy RAD uses Eclipse)

Jaymer

http://www.servoy.com/

This RAD tool uses eclipse also.
I know there are lots of things out there that use eclipse.
On this page is a 5-minute video showing the tool. Kinda cool to see “our eclipse” in action doing similar things.
That’s all.

Jhstephenson

Jaymer, I don't know if you ever worked with him, but years ago there was a Magic Rep named Erik Hagendijk. He eventually left and went to work for Servoy. He tried really hard to get me to move over, but the cost of it just seemed a little high. I appears that hasn't changed much.

Quite a jump from free for 5 users to $999 per month, plus $10/user. I am pretty sure it is out of my price range.

Jaymer

Initial thoughts about Servoy: (in random order as they come to me)
Not a lot of activity on the forum
Seems to like postGres
Uses jasper reporting
Uses eclipse IDE, just like aware
Bruce and I wouldn’t have much trouble with it, uses JavaScript for formulas and functions
But when you read forum messages you get a glimpse into some weird things they are dealing with and syntax. And I think it would be difficult because it’s such an uncommon tool.
And I’m not really a fan of that pricing model:
$12,000 per year just to start.
$10/mo adds ups. 25-40 users in a company is $4-5k MORE per year.
AND its not even clear that its better/faster than Aware (as an example).

It is cool to see WYSIWYG forms - I'm not sure whats holding Aware back from doing forms like that.

Sure, I remember Erik. Makes sense since he was Dutch!

As a free tool for a couple of users it seems like it would be nice to play around with - but the issues on the forum make it appear that there's some weird stuff. Looks simple on the surface, but you could eat up some time easily if you got stuck. And then if your app was any kind of success, you're stuck with that $12k nut right at the start.

But anyway, I only posted this because of eclipse. Right at the beginning of the video it looks just like Aware with that left-side elements tree it kinda freaked me out!

ACDC

It is cool to see WYSIWYG forms - I'm not sure whats holding Aware back from doing forms like that.

I agree, why can't we get that 🙁

aware_support

Is there a video that shows how they do forms?

Jaymer

aware_support wrote
Is there a video that shows how they do forms?

https://youtu.be/2xYLTfDQJLw?t=13

PointsWell

Nice looking forms.

Drag and drop of fields from an available list would be great.

Jaymer

I think the biggest issue is not how to build the forms in Config Tool (ie. the technology of a form designer programmed by Support), but how to image that pixel-perfect form in a Browser.
... and thats based on my limited knowledge of Kendo.
And I have no idea what newer technology is in the upcoming Kendo release.

Meaning, Servoy isn't using Kendo, so they have their own framework (would be interesting to see what source code of a form looks like in a browser) to build a screen. I don't know how Aware could produce "pixel perfect" screens because it can only do what Kendo offers.

A RAD skype group I'm in has a guy who was going to use GotoMyPC-type technology to publish an app because he'd develop it in a "desktop" tool - only because of better screen design. I wasn't on-board with his reasoning for doing so, but the point is that desktop tools can make better screens than Aware because we're web only via Kendo.

We (Aware) lost a guy a few years ago because he discovered WinDev and he felt forms were going to be easier than with Aware.
I think I'll download that free version and see if I can create a form and see what the source looks like. I've been living in Kendo for so long that I'm not even aware of what else is out there.

aware_support

Aware IM form layout is not done using Kendo. The biggest challenge in creating pixel-perfect forms is to translate it to HTML, not Kendo.

However, we would argue that the way Aware IM creates forms is better than pixel perfect forms. In a way, it's like a Bootstrap grid system. Yes, you cannot move your elements outside of the grid, but using the grid has tremendous advantages - it is much easier to create relatively simple forms, forms are responsive and so on.

Jaymer

Installed servoy and then installed the sample app.

as Vlad said, he uses the Grid for screen layout.
They use absolute positioning.
In the sample app, they don't get very fancy with elaborate screens mixing sizes, fonts, etc., but this gives us enough to see how they do it.

<div ng-style="layout.orderdate" class="svy-wrapper" style="top: 311px; left: 180px; position: absolute; right: calc(50% + 15px); height: 42px; min-width: 0px;">
	<data-servoydefault-calendar name="orderdate" svy-model="model.orderdate" svy-api="api.orderdate" svy-handlers="handlers.orderdate" svy-servoyapi="handlers.orderdate.svy_servoyApi" class="ng-isolate-scope">
		<div class="input-group date ng-pristine ng-untouched ng-valid ng-not-empty" ng-model="model.dataProviderID" ng-style="(!model.readOnly &amp;&amp; model.enabled &amp;&amp; !model.findmode) ? { 'position':'relative'} : {'display':'inline', 'position':'relative'}" style="position: relative;">
			<input type="text" sablo-tabseq="model.tabSeq" svy-focusgained="handlers.onFocusGainedMethodID($event)" svy-focuslost="handlers.onFocusLostMethodID($event)" svy-rightclick="handlers.onRightClickMethodID($event)" svy-enter="handlers.onActionMethodID($event)" class="svy-calendar form-control input-sm svy-padding-xs svy-line-height-normal" ng-focus="focusGained($event)" ng-blur="focusLost($event)" svy-attributes="model.attributes" id="056eed35d1153996d5f820a037aae04a" tabindex="6" style="height: 42px;">
				<span class="input-group-addon" style="padding:0;" ng-show="!model.readOnly &amp;&amp; model.enabled &amp;&amp; !model.findmode">
					<span class="glyphicon glyphicon-calendar"></span>
				</span>
		</div>
	</data-servoydefault-calendar>
</div>
<div ng-style="layout.city" class="svy-wrapper" style="top: 311px; left: calc(50% + 145px); position: absolute; right: 60px; height: 42px; min-width: 0px;">
		<input style="width: 100%; height: 100%; overflow: hidden;" class="svy-textfield svy-field form-control input-sm svy-padding-xs ng-pristine ng-valid ng-isolate-scope ng-not-empty ng-touched" type="text" id="51ba082015634e0e4ea4e04b983e5929" ng-model="model.dataProviderID" sablo-tabseq="model.tabSeq" svy-autoapply="" svy-focusgained="handlers.onFocusGainedMethodID($event)" svy-focuslost="handlers.onFocusLostMethodID($event)" svy-enter="handlers.onActionMethodID($event)" ng-click="onClick($event)" svy-rightclick="handlers.onRightClickMethodID($event)" svy-decimal-key-converter="" svy-attributes="model.attributes" name="city" svy-model="model.city" svy-api="api.city" svy-handlers="handlers.city" svy-servoyapi="handlers.city.svy_servoyApi" tabindex="7" maxlength="15">
</div>

This is the code for ONLY 2 FIELDS as shown in the image.
A lot more code than Aware, for what its worth. But also more functionality with explicit handlers for every field plus positioning.

BLOMASKY

Before I saw the light and embraced Aware, I used EXT JS which is a huge Javascript framework, but lets talk about how they did forms.

Besides all of the controls (input, button, combo boxes, etc. they had Hbox and VBox (Horizontal and Vertical boxes). You could set the height and width of them, so by nesting the H and V boxed, you could create any complex layout that could be define by rectangles. it was WYSIWYG, and since the heights / widths could be % of pixels could create forms that would grow to fit on larger forms.

Wonder how hard that would be for Aware?

Bruce