Phonegap alternative?

hpl123

http://www.volt.build

Jaymer

at least its cheaper than the others

hpl123

They also have app files submital via an api so one idea is integrating Aware through the api i.e we could do everything from inside Aware so no hassle with zip files etc..

I would much rather see a PWA tool in Aware though, just saying...

aware_support

Can PWA be considered a serious alternative to PhoneGap and the like? Last time we checked support for native stuff in mobile browsers was quite lacking, especially in iOS. Are you saying this situation is different now?

We'd like to go PWA, but the technology still seems to be immature. Would be good to be convinced otherwise.

hpl123

aware_support wrote
Can PWA be considered a serious alternative to PhoneGap and the like? Last time we checked support for native stuff in mobile browsers was quite lacking, especially in iOS. Are you saying this situation is different now?

We'd like to go PWA, but the technology still seems to be immature. Would be good to be convinced otherwise.

Well, not sure I can convince you and I don´t have all data concerning Awaresoft/AwareIM market and users so I can´t really form a complete picture about this but here is how I think about it. NB: I will not rant about all the benefits, features etc. etc. with a PWA as I have already done that in several other posts on the forum so if interested look at my previous posts.

First of all, I don´t see it as clear cut as "native VS PWA" as both of course have their strengths and weaknesses and which to use depends on the project and app to build but the way I would think about it is this: What would benefit MOST Aware developers now and in the future? Implementing PWA in Aware now would benefit most developers and/but nothing prevents Awaresoft from implementing/replacing native gradually i.e implement PWA and for the time being at least keep the native option. NB: I am not suggesting you remove native from Aware, both might be needed/essential in the future. I just don´t think native will survive when looking at the way PWA is progressing.

If you look at all the data and trends the mobile landscape is going towards PWA and there is in my mind no question about that. The technology is not immature, if it was big players like Google, Windows and Samsung would not integrate it into their infrastructure etc.. What is immature is Apple, falling behind everyone else and/but I believe it´s only a matter of time before Apple goes full PWA: "Microsoft and Samsung have joined Google in the quest to actively support and promote PWAs. Since early 2020, Apple seems to have realized that not all apps belong in the App Store. With the release of iOS 13, most basic PWA features are now finally fully supported on iPads and iPhones." (June 2020, https://simplabs.com/blog/2020/06/10/the-state-of-pwa-support-on-mobile-and-desktop-in-2020/). If we for our purposes look at what Apple currently does not support it really boils down to 2 main things: 1: web push notifications and 2: distribution/install options (e.g install prompt, installer) and these are rather large things but not dealbreakers in my book as again I think these things will come to IOS sooner rather than later and not having these doesn´t mean we don´t get all other benefits of a PWA. The other native features we have in Aware are all supported (+ some more), see here for a overview comparing the different OSes: https://simplabs.com/assets/images/posts/2020-06-10-the-state-of-pwa-support-on-mobile-and-desktop-in-2020/infographic@1800-86adeafe83d6d8f7cac59be98a208ff6.png . Another thing worth mentioning here is offline support and this is possible today in a PWA using service workers (exactly how complex the offline capabilities can be in a PWA I don´t know, but everything Aware does today at least I believe is possible). A PWA can also utilize localstorage or SQLite like any other website which gives the PWA a lot of options in terms of offline storage.

If we look at the 2 main things/problems above:

1: web push notifications. Push notifications in PWA works fully for Android, Windows and MacOS with IOS most likely coming soon. This means with PWA in Aware developers get access to push notifications for their webapp on desktop + on Android mobile. It does not work on IOS yet but that doesn´t mean we don´t get the other benefits. When it comes to push notifications on IOS, this is a rather big thing sure but how many Aware developers are currently using push notifications for IOS via Aware? For the few where IOS and push notifications are absolutely crucial, they can still do a native IOS app via Aware (or just not offer push notifications for IOS for the time being).
2: distribution/install options (e.g install prompt, installer). A PWA supports an install prompt + installer option for Android, Windows and MacOS which means a end user can install a webapp (independently of appstores) on their desktop or mobile (Android) device with the click of a button which is a great feature and I reckon would be very valuable for most if not all end users + for us Aware developers/companies that want to distribute our apps to our endusers (if our options to distribute the app increases, our app distribution increases). When it comes to appstore distribution on Android and IOS. This is possible with a PWA I have read but I don´t think that part is mature enough to rely on (might be?) but I would believe (just makes sense) it´s also just a matter of time until PWA´s are fully installable on ALL appstores i.e IOS, Android AND Windows, Mac.

From a business point of view. If PWA is the future this means more and more companies and developers would look for simple tools to build complex PWA´s and why not make Aware one of the first simple RAD tools that can build complex PWA´s?

aware_support

Thank you for your thoughts, Henrik

aware_support

Thanks, Henrik.

A quote from this article:
"PWAs do not exist for Safari and iOS teams."

This is what makes it a showstopper from our point of view. No point migrating to PWA unless Apple is on board. At least for native mobile apps.

hpl123

aware_support wrote
Thanks, Henrik.

A quote from this article:
"PWAs do not exist for Safari and iOS teams."

This is what makes it a showstopper from our point of view. No point migrating to PWA unless Apple is on board. At least for native mobile apps.

Yes, I know and I understand your viewpoint. The way I see it is still, PWA´s even if low importance/priority for mobile Apple, do still work for the most part on all Apple devices including mobile (+ Android and all OS desktop) i.e it´s a lot of great functionality the developer would get access to even if Apple is, not sure what they are doing 🙂, not actively working with it.

hpl123

PWA updates IOS 2022: https://firt.dev/ios-15.4b .

hpl123

PWA IOS 2022, all things supported: https://firt.dev/notes/pwa-ios/

hpl123

Interesting read about PWA: https://www.mobiloud.com/blog/progressive-web-app-examples

It is here to stay 😃.

tford

Thanks Henrik

Just diving back into Aware again recently. Can get me up to date about how PWA impacts Aware IM's current state of development?

Thanks!

hpl123

tford wrote
Thanks Henrik

Just diving back into Aware again recently. Can get me up to date about how PWA impacts Aware IM's current state of development?

Thanks!

Well, its a big topic but as I see it PWAs are the future when it comes to mobile apps etc. (native will most likely still exist but be more and more for specialised complex apps) and the current functionality and toolset a PWA offers is more or less all that is needed to build advanced and featurerich mobile apps without having to go the native appstore etc. route (all that is needed to do most if not all Aware developers mobile apps). Apple is lagging behind a bit but does still support 95% of the most important PWA features and Apple is getting more aboard with PWAs year by year.

If you look at the different links shared above in this post you can read up on what exactly the PWA toolset is and also about the benefits of PWA (and also some about native VS PWA).

I think having a "PWA builder" if you will built into Aware would make mobile development for Aware users a whole lot easier and better.

The last Awaresoft said about this was that they are waiting for Apple to get further along but that can take years and the current PWA toolset is again good enough to build very good mobile apps on both Android and IOS so IMO having it in Aware now would bring a lot of benefit to us Aware developers.

tford

Thanks so much for the primer, Henrik!!

joben

One of the most important things missing right now in iOS PWA is, in my opinion, push notifications.
Last time I checked, it just wasn't possible.

I don't see why Apple would fix this anytime soon. It would remove a huge part of their income from App sales.

hpl123

joben wrote
One of the most important things missing right now in iOS PWA is, in my opinion, push notifications.
Last time I checked, it just wasn't possible.

I don't see why Apple would fix this anytime soon. It would remove a huge part of their income from App sales.

I agree, this and the install prompt installing the app with 1 click are IMO the 2 big things missing on IOS.

Push notifications are just around the corner I think, I read multiple reports in 2022 that it was coming and doing a google search on it now in 2023 gets results like https://www.reddit.com/r/PWA/comments/v6bpun/web_push_notifications_coming_to_ios_16_in_2023/

The right strategy for Apple business wise would be to adapt based on the times, current technology etc. and not hang on to their old ways of doing things. Find ways to make money wlth PWAs instead and as both Google and Microsoft are aboard the PWA train and strong proponents of PWAs, Apple can't not follow sooner or later.

I do however not see this not being supported yet being a dealbreaker, there are ways to work around that (don't use push notifications for IOS, use SMS/email, use an in app dashboard showing notifications when a user logs in etc. etc ). Albeit not ideal but good enough IMO for most use cases and for other situations where push notifications are absolutely crucial, then build a native app instead. Its not either or. A PWA still offers tremendous value as is with all the options available, just take a look at the latest link I posted in the other post above. Take a look at the examples there and you can also test many of the PWA examples on your phone (open URL seen in the apps screenshots). If you google it you can also find a lot of other cool PWA examples.

When it comes to the install prompt, this is not a biggie either I think as the current PWA "framework" allows for a nice popup on IOS devices instructing the user in how to install the app (2 clicks literally, its the add to home screen option that installs the app).