Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

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Jaymer
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Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by Jaymer »

One of my clients has been approached by oracle for licensing fees.
What are y’all doing about this?
Does every Aware user/site need to pay?
Can a public user hit a tomcat server with a query to discover a java version in use?
Last edited by Jaymer on Wed Oct 28, 2020 6:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jaymer
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nhofkes
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Re: So, has Oracle contacted anyone demanding payment for Java?

Post by nhofkes »

My understanding is that Java exists in 2 flavours, one under commercial license from Oracle and one which is freely available under GPL License (named OpenJDK by Oracle).

I found this on the Oracle site (https://blogs.oracle.com/java-platform- ... -and-later)
Starting with Java 11, Oracle will provide JDK releases under the open source GNU General Public License v2, with the Classpath Exception (GPLv2+CPE), and under a commercial license for those using the Oracle JDK as part of an Oracle product or service, or who do not wish to use open source software.
I have assumed that the Java version that ships with AIM is the open source version, i.e. without Oracle license.
If it isn't, then perhaps it would be best to change to the OpenJDK version.
Niels
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Jaymer
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Re: So, has oracle contacted anyone demanding payment for Java?

Post by Jaymer »

This popped up today on one of my sites
This is using whatever is installed in 8.4
Screen Shot 2020-10-28 at 2.10.37 PM.png
Screen Shot 2020-10-28 at 2.10.37 PM.png (211.89 KiB) Viewed 18874 times
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Jaymer
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Jaymer
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Re: So, has Oracle contacted anyone demanding payment for Java?

Post by Jaymer »

nhofkes wrote: Thu Oct 22, 2020 11:39 am I have assumed that the Java version that ships with AIM is the open source version, i.e. without Oracle license.
If it isn't, then perhaps it would be best to change to the OpenJDK version.
bad assumption
i think we are all at risk.
in some case, i'm sure the license fee for Java exceeds the license fee for Aware

I think Support needs to address this
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BobK
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by BobK »

On a windows machine you can find the version of java AwareIM uses by bringing up a command prompt and executing:

Code: Select all

c:\awareim\jdk\bin\java -version
The current build of AwareIM uses:
java version "1.8.0_91"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.8.0_91-b15)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 25.91-b15, mixed mode)
Bob
Rennur
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by Rennur »

We've purchased a Java subscription back in Dec 2019.
Java SE Subscription
Java SE Subscription
Java.png (50.92 KiB) Viewed 18853 times
Jaymer
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by Jaymer »

@Rennur
Of all people on this forum, you were the first one I would expect to use the open source version, and not have to pay money.
That does not bode well for the rest of us.

All of the simple plans on upcloud servers don’t specify processors. They specify cores.
For licensing, does that just count as one processor even though you’re a six or eight core?
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hpl123
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by hpl123 »

This is a shite move by Oracle. Yes, support please address this and how it affects us?
Henrik (V8 Developer Ed. - Windows)
nhofkes
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by nhofkes »

@Rennur, I noticed that you listed on your Github page (https://github.com/RennurApps/AwareIM-r ... s#java-jdk) the OpenJDK packages, starting with the 15 and 14 versions. Have you tried AIM with any of those versions replacing the standard Java-SE v8 that ships with AIM?

About a month ago I downloaded that OpenJDK version with the intention to install it, but have so far postponed that - both because AIM seems to be running fine as it is and I like the "don't fix it if it ain't broken" approach, as well as I am slightly concerned that replacing the JDK may be time-consuming or result in errors or unpredictable behaviour (or both). But the Aware installation guide (page 18 and 19) has an explanation about installing a different version of Java, and it does not seem to be too difficult so I may just as well give it a try. Meanwhile, if anyone has already written a useful guideline or how-to about this, I would be most grateful to read it (I searched this forum but could not really find it, other than a few notes here and there).
Niels
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by aware_support »

Aware IM currently ships with Java version 8. Oracle new licensing applies to Java version 11 and above.
So currently you are not at risk. At some point in the future we will probably have to buy Oracle's distribution license when Aware IM officially ships with the latest version of Java.

Aware IM WILL work with the latest Java if you install it yourself and replace Java that ships with Aware IM (with some minor tweaks, that I believe are explained in some other thread). If you do this then you will need to comply with Oracle terms.
Aware IM Support Team
nhofkes
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Re: Install OpenJDK

Post by nhofkes »

I just finished installing the OpenJDK 15 to replace the standard Java SE v8 that ships with AwareIM. So far everything seems to be working fine, I got the Control Panel and the Configurator running without any problems.
For info, this is my current version:
openjdk version "15.0.1" 2020-10-20
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (build 15.0.1+9-18)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 15.0.1+9-18, mixed mode, sharing)
@Support, I was slightly confused by the statement in this post:
You can upgrade to the latest Java yourself - Aware IM should support it. All you need to do is rename the current JDK folder and replace it with the JDK folder of the latest Java. The only other thing you need to do is find all occurrences of the file tools.jar and delete them or rename then to tools.jar.old or something like that. Otherwise, reports won't work.
I assume you refer to the file tools.jar in the JDK installation? The OpenJDK version 15 does not have any such file, so there is nothing to delete or rename.
There are however a lot of these files in other directories, but those are placed by the standard Aware install so I assume they should stay there:
C:\AwareIM\ConfigTool\eclipse\plugins\com.awaresoft.awareim.shared_1.0.0\tools.jar
C:\AwareIM\CP\eclipse\plugins\com.awaresoft.awareim.shared_1.0.0\tools.jar
C:\AwareIM\lib\tools.jar
C:\AwareIM\Tomcat\webapps\AwareIM\WEB-INF\lib\tools.jar
C:\AwareIM\VAR\binlinux\CP\eclipse\plugins\com.awaresoft.awareim.shared_1.0.0\tools.jar
C:\AwareIM\VAR\binmac\CP\Eclipse\plugins\com.awaresoft.awareim.shared_1.0.0\tools.jar
C:\AwareIM\VAR\binwin\CP\eclipse\plugins\com.awaresoft.awareim.shared_1.0.0\tools.jar
Niels
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by aware_support »

Hi Niels,

Code: Select all

I assume you refer to the file tools.jar in the JDK installation? The OpenJDK version 15 does not have any such file, so there is nothing to delete or rename.There are however a lot of these files in other directories, but those are placed by the standard Aware install so I assume they should stay there:
All of these files need to be deleted. Aware IM needs them for Java 8. but latest Java does not need them and they become a problem when the latest Java is used.

Thank you for testing OpenJDK version. Do you know what their licensing terms are - can you send a link, please?
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nhofkes
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by nhofkes »

Do you know what their licensing terms are - can you send a link, please?
I downloaded the OpenJDK from here: https://jdk.java.net/15/
The software is open source and licensed under the GNU General Public License, version 2, with the Classpath Exception. The full license terms are here: https://openjdk.java.net/legal/gplv2+ce.html
Furthermore, if you download the JDK v15 (Windows version) and extract the zipfile, you will see a separate directory 'legal' which contains license information for the various Java modules.
Niels
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nhofkes
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by nhofkes »

All of these files need to be deleted. Aware IM needs them for Java 8. but latest Java does not need them and they become a problem when the latest Java is used.
Okay, clear. As I expect that I may have to do the same in the future if I install a new version or build of Aware, I have written a Powershell script that can automatically rename or remove all of these files. See below. This is made for Windows installations and assumes that AwareIM is installed in the default C:\AwareIM folder. Also, AwareIM server must be shut down first before this is run, otherwise some of the tools.jar files will be locked.

Code: Select all

# Note: Powershell must be started as Administrator for this to work 
Get-ChildItem -Path C:\AwareIM -Filter tools.jar -Recurse | Rename-Item -NewName { $_.Name -replace '.jar', '.jar.old' }

# Alternative if you want to delete the files instead of renaming:
# Get-ChildItem -Path C:\AwareIM -Filter tools.jar* -Recurse | Remove-Item
Niels
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RLJB
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by RLJB »

Can confirm OpenJDK 8 works fine, have been using on 6 AwareIM prod servers with Linux for at least 12 months.
Rod. Aware 8.6 (latest build), Developer Edition, on OS Linux (Ubuntu) using GUI hosted on AWS EC2, MYSQL on AWS RDS
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