►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareIM?

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BenHayat
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►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareIM?

Post by BenHayat »

Angular 1 became a very popular and a strong "client side" platform. Now the next generation (Angular 2) is upon us.
Is anyone considering incorporating Angular 2 with AwareIM backend system? This opens up a huge market.

Any thoughts?
Squiffy
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Re: ►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareI

Post by Squiffy »

I am so not considering Angular 2 it almost hurts.

In fact, ouch, ooo,,,ahh....
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johntalbott
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Re: ►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareI

Post by johntalbott »

I haven't considered Angular 2 specifically.

But I'm definitely interested in the concept of AwareIM as back-end app server accessible via REST to be consumed by a variety of front-end frameworks as Angular.

At this point, I'd be happy with understanding a clean approach to use jQuery/Kendo UI to make direct REST API calls to AwareIM. There are instances where I would prefer to just configure a widget via straight JQuery/Javascript in a HTML page and bypass the parsers altogether.
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BenHayat
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Re: ►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareI

Post by BenHayat »

johntalbott wrote:I haven't considered Angular 2 specifically.

But I'm definitely interested in the concept of AwareIM as back-end app server accessible via REST to be consumed by a variety of front-end frameworks as Angular.

At this point, I'd be happy with understanding a clean approach to use jQuery/Kendo UI to make direct REST API calls to AwareIM. There are instances where I would prefer to just configure a widget via straight JQuery/Javascript in a HTML page and bypass the parsers altogether.
I'm trying to see if it is even possible to use AwareIM. It seems like it requires Node JS for server side.
BLOMASKY
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Re: ►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareI

Post by BLOMASKY »

John,

I see your comment, and have seen others, suggesting a desire to use Aware as the backend and have a UI (using REST or ???) call aware.

I don't get it. Where is the advantage vs. just using REST to call any of your fav. tools (i.e. Node.JS with MSSQL module that lets you perform all the CRUD functionality against your DB. Aware is NOT a backend database, but its a front end that is very easily programmed that "hides" or handles all of the low level DB work for you. But it is no easier to call an aware process that does a FIND or a CREATE than it is to call Node and issue a SQL statement. (yea, you do have to know how to write a Select, or Update or Insert, but they are so very similar to what you write in Aware.

Perhaps you can fill me in as to the use case of calling aware FROM a RESTful client.

However, I DO agree that the slowest part of developing an app in Aware is the limited HTML / JQuery customization. Takes a long time to write / test. Just laying out the screen takes forever, with changing percentages, saving, runnning, reloading. etc. etc. and repeat and repeat and repeat

If Vlad said there would be NO changes to V7 for the time it took him to develop a WYSIWYG editor with more parameters for the screen control, I would be a happy camper.


But, getting off topic, so guess time to shut up and have another glass of tequila

Bruce
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Re: ►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareI

Post by johntalbott »

I use the term back-end for the anything server side ... business logic in the app server in addition to the database. Everything client side is the front-end ... all of the code running in the browser.

The advantage of the REST service based approach is that is allows for completely decoupling the front-end/back-end code.

Instead of writing a ton of server-side business logic, one could still leverage the business rule engine baked into AwareIM's app server. But at the same time the UI could be completely independent and built with a framework of your choosing.
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BenHayat
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Re: ►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareI

Post by BenHayat »

johntalbott wrote:Instead of writing a ton of server-side business logic, one could still leverage the business rule engine baked into AwareIM's app server. But at the same time the UI could be completely independent and built with a framework of your choosing.
Exactly! Plus tons of new third party widgets will be available for Mobile that may not be in Aware's
Mobile. This will allow us to have different types of Mobile to work on Aware system.
But I'm not sure the way Aware exposes itself as RESTull, is the way Angular will recognize it.
baskosi
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Re: ►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareI

Post by baskosi »

There is a lot of business logic that works server-side and client-side at the same time. Aware IM already handles this by generating the code for the UI.

Aware IM is the best when used as a complete solution (server + client side). It might not be the most flexible solution but it does handle a lot of stuff you need to implement yourself in other technologies.

One person may develop a professional solution using Aware IM. It might take a lot longer for the same person developing something similar on another platform (e.g. Node JS + Angular or Dart + Angular or Wakanda + Angular). For one person team Aware IM is great. For larger teams it is too limiting.

Using Aware IM we get Awaresoft that takes care of the technology and we can focus on business value that a client pays for. With other platforms we need to develop the technical plumbing first and only then start adding business value. The second approach takes longer, requires more people and costs more.

p.s.
Kendo is developing their widgets as Angular 2 components. This will not affect Aware IM but you could use Kendo for your Angular UI.
Borut
johntalbott
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Re: ►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareI

Post by johntalbott »

baskosi wrote:There is a lot of business logic that works server-side and client-side at the same time. Aware IM already handles this by generating the code for the UI.
What are you referring to as business logic on the client-side?

For the most part I appreciate the magnitude of what AwareIM does to build a web app quickly. But it does come at a price.

I can picture using it to develop 80% of the base web application end to end. It's that last 20% of what amounts to workarounds that is a massive pain and time suck. There are many gotchas from the UI customization to that way it manages the database.
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baskosi
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Re: ►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareI

Post by baskosi »

A simple one is required fields. Then there is code that executes on forms during entry that calls the server logic even if the form is not saved.

Nothing that cannot be done if using some other UI library but there is a lot of "plumbing" that you would need to do yourself.

I enjoy using the latest Angular 2 but there is a lot of work that needs to be done that is already taken care in Aware IM.

p.s.
I don't have any production apps in Aware IM so I might be looking at Aware IM with a "rose colored glasses".
Borut
BenHayat
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Re: ►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareI

Post by BenHayat »

baskosi wrote: I enjoy using the latest Angular 2 but there is a lot of work that needs to be done that is already taken care in Aware IM.
Even though I come from hand coding, I watched a 2 hour video on A2 and at the end my head was spinning on the amount of work you have to do. To build a full Line of Business commercial grade app in A2, would take minimum of 5 times longer and 5 times more developers than if it was done in Aware.
After that video I became humble again and realized to replicate the main features of Aware before I can even start doing the actual app, would take me a L O N G time, and Aware has been constant updates for over 14 years.
I always like to explore things to gain knowledge, but that exploration sometime points back to what you got on hand and appreciate it more. :)
BLOMASKY
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My experience with Sencha and Node

Post by BLOMASKY »

I am coming from spending the last few years building apps using Sencha ExtJS for the GUI and that database plumbing (their use of Models and Stores for persistance works really really good). This connected to either ColdFusion (or for the newer apps) Node.JS which handled all of the calls to MSSQL.

Lets take a simple query that, when row is selected we want to display a form with all of the attributes and allow editing. In aware, the only code I have to write after the BO is defined is:

Query Parameters (the FIND)
Query Layout (which attributes to display and the column headings, size, etc.
One process that will open the form when a row is selected (Yea, I know, with a layout can skip that)
The Form Layout

The plus, this is blindingly fast to write, the downside is that the query and form layouts are both tedious to write / test and are less than flexible. (being politically correct).

I don't have to write any code to:
read records,
open forms,
update SQL Tables,
perform any calculations based on if values in some attributes changed
(and our example is very simple, only one BO, no relationships where Aware really really shines in the amount of work it does under the hood.

Now, Sencha let me build a damn georgous screen, with pixel precision. I could have data move, resize, etc. etc.
BUT, I had to issue a REST call for every table to READ, CREATE, UPDATE and DELETE. (Yea, a lot of it was boilerplate where I could copy, paste and change some of the table names. It took a lot longer to test and debug.

I am certainly about 500% faster with Aware. What I can do in 1 day would take a week. and the debugging well, there is NO comparison. (I got to spend a LOT of time with the javascript console open trying to walk through and figure out why sometimes I was getting garbage.)

Why am I adding post to the topic re: Angular. Assuming that there was a robust REST interface (and maybe all you need is to be able to call a process and pass parameters? maybe???). You would have to write a lot of processes to do things we let the engine do for us. If you build your pretty form in HTML and wanted to save the data, you would have to write a "CREATE RECORD" process and pass all of the columns (ok, a JSON object) to the engine, have it parse that, have the ability to send error msgs back to your client if the parsing fails some test, then send the result back if successful.

To me this seems like trying to make Aware do what it does not do very well. My solution to this would do what aware does well, and when you have a need for a "spiffy" UI in part of your application, use DISPLAY URL to call whatever app you write (does not matter tool built the UI, could even be Sencha. Doesn't matter what middleware you wanna use. (Angular fans, go for it) and then use something like Node.js to connect to SQL.

Bottom line, All of your data is stored in SQL so it doesn't matter what tools are used to update it. And its EASY to do this. (I am using Stored Procedures in Aware to update, retrieve, calculate data that would be a lot harder to do in Aware. ) I have not found the need to use a diff. UI (yet), but if you do, pick your fav. tools and then use Node (or whatever middleware) and SQL to update the appropriate tables.


Just my 0.02 cents worth

Bruce
BenHayat
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Re: My experience with Sencha and Node

Post by BenHayat »

BLOMASKY wrote: Just my 0.02 cents worth

Bruce
Great point(s), Bruce. Thank you!
BenHayat
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Re: ►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareI

Post by BenHayat »

baskosi wrote: Aware IM is the best when used as a complete solution (server + client side). It might not be the most flexible solution but it does handle a lot of stuff you need to implement yourself in other technologies.
I also wanted to concur with this point.
One thing I truly appreciated in 80's and 90's working with systems that were a total solutions. For example many people developed total solutions in dBase or DataFlex or Magic and etc. in ONE environment. Now these days, you have to do so much just to create an Integrated Development Environment (IDE). One of the things that attracted me to Aware, was that, let Aware team worry about integration and let me worry about app development.
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Re: ►Poll◄ Is anyone considering using Angular 2 with AwareI

Post by swiftinitpvtltd »

Not sure if angular 8 can be used for any good reason along with aware IM.
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