Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

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Jaymer
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by Jaymer »

obviously, this issue is re-surfacing with v8.6 in a month or so.
what are we supposed to do?

obviously, i'm not the least bit concerned with running aware (for any reason) on my personal PC, but
what about Upcloud / AWS servers?
a) Is that only 1 server license for the entire Upcloud box? Why wouldn't Upcloud pay the license and distribute that cost? They may already be running a Java mgmt tool on the server?
b) Is it 1 license PER virtual host on the Upcloud box?
c) Is it 1 license PER IP/BSV? (I have 5 BSV for 5 totally diff. companies. Pay for 1 license or 5)
d) What about a guy who builds a PC and has it internally in a rack for his whole company? isn't that just like #a above? 1 license?

Reading the license (multiple times) isn't very clear for me.
Is it PER USER license/per month -OR- server license, but not BOTH?

From https://www.oracle.com/java/technologie ... -faqs.html
"What if Oracle JDK is included with the application I licensed from my application vendor?
Thanks to its reputation for high quality, compatibility, reliability and a predictable release schedule known well in advance, Oracle JDK is the favorite runtime of the vast majority of Java developers. Accordingly, many third-party software vendors beside Oracle develop, test and certify their software for Oracle JDK and recommend its use to run their applications. Your application vendor may have an ISV agreement with Oracle to provide you with Java updates to run the application vendor’s product. If this is the case, you will not need a separate license from Oracle for Java running on the application. Please contact your application vendor to determine whether your application vendor is authorized to distribute Java to you with their application."

is this still going to happen?
aware_support wrote: Fri Oct 30, 2020 2:39 am Aware IM currently ships with Java version 8. Oracle new licensing applies to Java version 11 and above.
So currently you are not at risk. At some point in the future we will probably have to buy Oracle's distribution license when Aware IM officially ships with the latest version of Java.
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Jaymer
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PointsWell
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by PointsWell »

You can replace Oracle JDK with Open JDK, but AIM cannot distribute Open JDK without making AIM open sourced
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by aware_support »

Our initial reply was wrong - we misunderstood Oracle licensing terms. Apparently developers don't have to pay, only end users. So we will not be purchasing a subscription that you can use - that's not how it works.

Regarding Open JDK - like you say, we definitely cannot distribute it. Whether you can use it on a hosted server yourself - I am not sure. Check the terms of the GPL license. My understanding is that you can't, but I could be wrong.
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PointsWell
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by PointsWell »

aware_support wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:49 pm Regarding Open JDK - like you say, we definitely cannot distribute it. Whether you can use it on a hosted server yourself - I am not sure. Check the terms of the GPL license. My understanding is that you can't, but I could be wrong.
It seems that OpenJDK is on the more permissive GPLv2 licence and has a classpath exception, ie if you can completely sever your software from OpenJDK and substitute an alternative into the software then you are not required to open source your licence.

So if you modify the OpenJDK then you have to open source but if you just put the OpenJDK into a package and it is substitutable then you do not need to open source your software.

Ergo if you develop an app on AIM and that app can run equally well with Oracle JDK OR OpenJDK then you are not required to open source your app and AwareSoft does not have to open source AIM.

I am not a practicing lawyer but the licence is pretty short and relatively straightforward.
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by aware_support »

That's excellent. Thanks, Sean. So here you go - so it seems you don't need to pay anything after all.
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Jaymer
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by Jaymer »

so what we need is some official help from Aware on how to upgrade the Java that comes with Aware, to the Open JDK version?
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by aware_support »

It should be the same as upgrading to a different version of Java. And this should be explained in the Installation Guide.
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by nhofkes »

It's explained on page 18 and 19 of the Installation Guide for version 8.5. I found upgrading to Open JDK really simple.
As pointed out before by Support, you need to rename or delete the old tools.jar files. I provided a PowerShell script to do that automatically in this post (but I guess that only works in Windows).
Niels
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by aware_support »

Starting from version 8.6 tools.jar will no longer be required.
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nhofkes
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by nhofkes »

Does that mean (a) that tools.jar is not included with version 8.6, or (b) that it is no longer necessary to remove or delete it when changing to OpenJDK?
Niels
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by aware_support »

It is no longer included and it is no longer necessary to delete it when changing Java.
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intra
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by intra »

Just to confirm, plugin's that were written prior to v8.6 will also need to rewritten not to look up tools.jar as dependencies too?
Avid Linux user....
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Re: Are we at risk of needing to pay Oracle for Java fees?

Post by aware_support »

No, I think all the plugins should still be OK
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